Author Topic: Real or fake objects?  (Read 3215 times)

Offline Alan Botter

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Real or fake objects?
« on: December 12, 2021, 01:51:44 AM »
Hello I am a history buff, but to read, I don't know how to recognize fake historical objects. A site appeared on ebay that sells antiques from all eras. There are terms like "very rare",
"splendid", the story that the collection was of the dead father etc ... that make me doubt and also the variety of objects seems suspicious to me. Can anyone tell me if they sell real or fake items?https://ebay.it/usr/yorkantiquities

Offline Archaic

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2021, 02:24:16 PM »
Breathless hyperbole and almost manic positive spin  in his selling technique but  what he offers is essentially overpriced junk!!  Broken bits and pieces, all genuine, with a "story" (but is it true?)

Offline Kelly123

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2021, 02:26:58 PM »
I agree . Looks like mostly  scattered uninteresting  fragmentary  pieces  found by metal detecting talked up to great heights and some silly asking prices! . Very little of any real interest and one has no idea if the provenance stories are true or not.
Kelly.

Offline gaius asinius

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2021, 03:31:53 PM »
Trusting in online descriptions & attributions is a sure recipe for disappointment. York Antiquities at least offers up a lot of genuine finds & not phony junk crafted the other day in their cousin's workshop. Superlatives in these description are mere window dressing - all fluff and no substance. "Very rare" "extremely rare" and "one of a kind" are likewise all meaningless statements included to ensnare the consumer. Caveat emptor.

Gaius

Offline Jerry F

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2021, 03:56:22 PM »
yorkantiquities
=
York Antiquities
Paul Hardcastle
134 Beckfield Lane,
Acomb
York
North Yorkshire
Y0265QT
United Kingdom


Younger brother of Alan Hardcastle
 
https://ancientartifakes.net/smf/index.php/topic,1212.msg5145.html#msg5145


https://ancientartifakes.net/smf/index.php/topic,1185.msg4950.html#msg4950




Both have been claiming for a very long time to be selling their father's collection amongst other things, notable badly made fakes. Though Alan has been the major culprit in this. Need to ask if fraud runs in families


Paul Barford discusses him also:


http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/search?q=hardcastle


Jerry.

Offline gaius asinius

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2021, 04:06:00 PM »
Paul is Alan's brother???!!! How do you like them apples!!!!!!!

Offline oldthings

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2021, 07:57:03 PM »


I didn't have the energy to go through all the fragmentary bits and pieces he is selling but there are several pieces called "Viking" which are certainly not Viking. Most of the fragments I saw were genuine but of little interest.

Offline Alan Botter

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2021, 10:23:55 PM »
hello thanks for the answers, when you mentioned Alan I thought: It's me? 🤣 However I found that they sell "Roman reinforced concrete". Absurd
I also saw that he found an Anglo-Saxon "treasure" in his garden ... what a coincidence

Offline monkeymaster

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2021, 11:22:18 AM »
Just an observation from an interested (very far from expert) amateur. The item shown is not described as "reinforced" concrete and the Romans were otherwise famous for their expertise in the use of concrete (viz the roof of the Pantheon, to name but one example).

Offline Alan Botter

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2022, 09:26:33 AM »
I know very well that the Romans were great builders and are considered the inventors of concrete (I'm Italian). The problem with this object is that if you read it carefully it is described as "having a part of iron incorporated", so I made the joke that "Roman reinforced concrete" was put up for sale. From what you can see and the dubious provenance it could also be a remnant of an old building or taken from a construction site

Offline gaius asinius

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2022, 05:41:56 PM »
Alan is correct in expressing skepticism on the provenance. Without further analysis you have no way of knowing whether the concrete is from the Forum Romanum or the old McDonalds they're tearing down somewhere in the city.

Gaius

Offline monkeymaster

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2022, 05:37:37 PM »
I agree with much that is stated here, though I confess to personally knowing the original finder of this "opa signinum" who is a detectorist and ancient history enthusiast of long-standing and considerable experience. A great many of his finds have (like this) been non-metallic and identifiable based on the context in which they were found. I note also comment to the effect that yorkantiquities (whom I do not know and have no connection with) mainly purveys genuine artefacts (albeit perhaps pricey in comparison to their intrinsic value). However, I do understand that when an item is subtracted from its context, provenance becomes a matter of trust, in which case "caveat emptor" as the Romans would have said.

Offline gaius asinius

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2022, 08:04:09 PM »
Not sure why anyone would want to spend 32,94 GBP for an non-descript chunk of concrete. Sticking a pottery sherd in your pocket as a souvenir of some Roman era site is potentially evocative to the individual. Really anything associated with past people and places has certain intrinsic meaning.

Offline Alan Botter

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2022, 05:10:50 AM »
Sorry but if you know the person who finds these items, how can you not know Yorkantiquities which is this person's shop where he sells these items?

Offline monkeymaster

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Re: Real or fake objects?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2022, 01:43:55 PM »
In England at least, amateur detectorists are permitted to search on land not otherwise scheduled as ancient monuments, so long as the landowner's permission is sought and granted. Inevitably, over the course of many years, such activity will yield a haul of artefacts which are of such little intrinsic value or historical significance that they need not be reported to the relevant authorities (there are laws governing this). In the case of my friend, his collection had reached a point where he decided he would dispose of some of the lesser items via a dealer...yorkantiquities. So finder and retailer are not one and the same, nor is my friend the sole source of yorkantiquities' stock.