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thoughts about last ebay action

Started by chris, July 11, 2009, 04:25:02 PM

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Let us acclaim the new development on ebay
Fantastic result of years of efforts, researches, and bombing of the ebay-secure centers with counterfeit sellers. For years, no response - for years tacit connivance -.

And now - quasi from one day to another -  suddenly ebay listen us, draws the conclusions and shut at least temporarily  the worst counterfeit-sellers out ! Behind this global cleansing action is certainly more . Ebay has been a massive revenue loss since a few years. Spectacular trials against ebay have damaged its reputation. Some countries have adopted strict guidelines which ebay has to follow. Gradually are growing competition. Paypal has now to cover more than 25% of the ebay turnover. More drastic sales declines through the global financial crisis are expected.
Considering everything I could imagine that this cleansing action will be used for a giant advertising campaign from ebay to restore their image and to increase the sales.

I expect that most of the banned crooks will come back. They will be cautious at the beginning, the fakes will look different, but generally will not change much. For a brief time the calm has been restored. It is as if ebay has given us leave.

But nevertheless, salute this victory, no matter how it came about.



And now almost 5 years after this success protects ebay their fake sellers, as never before!

Interesting thread....,1079.0.html

Ebay takes from each sale of fakes their high sales charges, Paypal earn hefty fees to each payment. Why should not run so on this lucrative business, as it is now.

You need to register on the forum to get to the link above( and elsewhere on the forum)
But anyway, this is much of  what it says there:

Ebay protect its fake sellers

« on: November 14, 2014, 10:26:53 AM »
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Ebay protect its fake sellers

* That's impossible to contact buyers of fakes was only the first step of ebay to protect its sellers. Whether honest or not.

* The bidders are defaced, therefore can not be warned during auction or from the feedback list. A few years were sellers who put the bidders list private, even    
  denounced as potential fake sellers.

* Some sellers even prevent contact during auction. Makes one think a lot.

* Feedback can obviously be apparently removed at will.

To the facts: I bought a relatively inexpensive silver ring with coinauctions12 as I watch this sellers for a long time. My suspicion was confirmed. This simple ring was a fake. A modern cast ,polished without any traces of use. The ring with new patina.

Summary of coinauctions12 versions:

The ring was cleaned with chemicals, then polished and again provided with new patina .Why polished first and then new patina? You guessed right, so the ring looks as if it were old. Contradict itself right? Not if you want to sell fakes on this way.

After a week I left a factual, technically correct negative feedback
"Ring is neither Roman nor old . It's a cheap cast forgery"

And now came the surprise.Without having filed a claimsoft on ebay , nor having contacted the seller accordingly, I received the refund. After a certain time ebay has removed this feedback and the neutral feedback (same seller) for another questionable object too. Now this power seller has 100% positive feedbacks again, although I left one negative and one neutral. The vest is white again we would say in Germany :-)

Almost 10% sales fee, whether fake or not, of course, is a strong argument for ebay's profit greed.
Now it is no wonder that the worst sellers of counterfeits can once again conquer the ebay marketplace !

* coinauction12$_12.JPG (21.95 KB, 500x333 - viewed 1 times.)

* coinauction12 a$_12.JPG (12.31 KB, 500x333 - viewed 1 times.)

« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 11:43:27 AM by chris »  Report to moderator (?)  

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Re: Ebay protect its fake sellers

« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2014, 11:27:14 PM »
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An interesting excerpt from a fraud report about saxbys-coins:

"He has a great scam going -- by selling largely authentic but cheap coins he is able to rack up lots of positive feedback.  He can slip in a few too-good-to-be-true coins along with them -- they sometimes go for much higher prices.  Note that if you check the feedback it is almost all for items that were fairly cheap -- less than about $200 -- where is the feedback for the higher-priced more suspicious coins?  One individual on a fraud site suggested that Mr. Stocks complains to eBay when he gets negative feedback and it is removed, thereby maintaining his high positive numbers.  It really works well for everyone except those who end up with forgeries -- Saxby's gets their money, eBay gets their fees -- quite a scam.  We can only hope that reports to eBay will at some point really be investigated.  I've also reported it to the FBI, so maybe that will get eBay to notice."

The full report can be read here:

which confirms my own experiences. Power seller can complain their negative feedback to ebay and induce that it is removed.
The only weapon of the aggrieved buyer is worthless.


« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 11:44:09 PM by chris »  Report to moderator (?)  

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Re: Ebay protect its fake sellers

« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 10:20:57 AM »
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eBay certainly does not advertise this!

Other people complain about it too.

Seems anyway one cannot  leave  neutral or  negative feedback for power sellers  until 7 days anyway!




EBay responds
Usher Lieberman, an EBay spokesman, says that if fake antiquities were as rampant as Stanish claims, buyers would complain and EBay would police the problem as it does when corporations alert it that knockoffs of their brands are being sold as authentic. "We take very seriously any claims that items sold on the site aren't genuine. . . . This isn't something we're hearing a lot about."


hah hah hah


eBay Admits It Banned A Whistleblower Warning Shoppers About Fake Products

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised.



From David W on the yahoo group

What you are discussing here is simply proof positive that eBay really is a thieves' market that is effectively unpoliced, especially with regard to items whose value depends upon attribution or brand authenticity. This includes just about everything from replacement automobile parts and accessories to luxury goods such as Rolex watches and designer handbags. Among the authenticity fraud offerings are fake coins of many types including ancient coins, and fake ancient artifacts. Many of these fake items are so crude that their falsity is evident from the images in the listings.

But there are still enough unwary buyers to make it profitable for unethical sellers to offer these fraudulent imitations. Some sellers will take them back, no questions asked, just as Sadigh does, while others require evidence of falsity which is so onerous to obtain in a documentary form that most buyers will not go to the trouble. Either way it's a numbers game - the statistics give the seller a high likelihood, IMO 90% or better, that a transaction will not result in a return claim.

eBay's feedback system is ineffective in preventing such fraud. The only effective approach is systematically policing the venue by observers with enough expertise to detect suspicious items, with the authority to order them to be removed from the listings until satisfactory evidence of authenticity is provided. This is the system in effect at VCoins, whose founder Bill Puetz operated a respected dealership in ancient coins (Twelve Caesars)  before he created VCoins and VHobbies.

eBay will never be willing to go to the trouble and expense involved in doing this, unless it is forced upon them by the prospect of credible legal consequences. In that case, the decision made will involve a choice between excluding the affected items from eBay, or providing evidence of authenticity.

I hope that everyone realizes that eBay absolutely does not care about the welfare of the defrauded buyers, and has absolutely no sense of guilt or shame regarding its role in their being defrauded. They have no "social conscience" at all, and only care about money.

If the antiquities collecting community had sufficient interest to be willing to operate a gratis policing system that would systematically scan eBay in a manner similar to that which is in effect at VCoins, it might perhaps be possible to convince eBay that this would be in their best interests. One way of getting some leverage to bring this about would be to raise the prospect of a systematic, active campaign to convince governments that eBay is an out of control thieves' market where fraud is rampant, and that eBay will never initiate or cooperate in any effective measures to prevent or significantly reduce this fraud, until required to do so by government action.

This approach would, however, require members of the collecting community to be willing to contribute their time and expertise in a reliable and dependable manner, for an indefinite and perhaps never-ending period.

So IMO the question resolves to this: are the members of the group willing to do or sponsor the work required? Or are they only interested in complaining about the reality that no one has enough interest in the problem to be willing to do anything effective to control it?

It doesn't take that many hours per week to do this scanning and identify questionable items. Bill Puetz was the "police force" at VCoins for years in his spare time. Could some system be set up to raise the relatively small amount of money required to fairly compensate those who do the work? In that manner, the burden could be shared by many, rather than be concentrated upon the few who care enough to be willing to volunteer.

One possible variant would be to set up an independent authenticity certifying agency whose approval could be used as a confidence building resource by ethical sellers, in a manner similar to the certifications provided by Trustwave and, which gives customers confidence that their credit card transactions with certified merchants are secure against any possibility of identity theft. My online business, Classical Coins, is certified by both these agencies, whose fees are very reasonable and well worth paying.

I'm personally past my crusading days. But I can still see this sort of thing clearly, and offer concepts regarding what would have to be done to set things right.